Installing Stoptech brakes

[Scotty]

First of all--on topic--the brakes look unbelievable awesome. My posts on BBKs come from my experiences as an HPDE instructor. There are certainly reasons to put on a BBK (you have a very heavy car/poor factory brakes, you want every last tenth of a second in lap times, you drive on a very high speed track, you have bigger wheels and your factory brakes look horribly tiny, you like the way they look in general, you have the money, etc.).

My beef is with those who say BBK significantly improve braking performance on the street--they, in general, don't. Further, for many cars at many tracks, a good brake bleed, proper high temp fluid, possibly stainless steel brake lines, instruction in proper braking technique, track specific pads, AND appropriate slow lap or paddock driving cool downs and stock brake calipers will often perform well, especially if tracking is a several time/year event.

[Intheflesh]

Originally Posted by F355Bob

This is with the trial of the HRE rim

looks nice! which hre is that?

[F355Bob]

Their 18 inch 545 reverse rims. I don't think they make them anymore. Their 8.5 front and 10 rear

[Dohangs]

Now those are what I call BRAKES! Nice!

[Denman_Honda]

Originally Posted by Scotty

My very unlearned theory about the advantages of big brakes (and big rotors) is the following:

1) Greater thermal mass allows for better heat management under extreme (e.g. track) conditions.

2) Pad changeover can be easier.

3) Pad compound selection can be greater.

4) Clamping force can ultimately be greater (which can be an issue with huge slicks).

5) Modulation or balance characteristics can be changed from stock (although you can do that with pad compounds as well).

6) Caliper flex (which can lead to pad taper) can be less.

Most, if not all of the above things matter little to at all on the street. Of course, giant wheels with little tiny discs behind them don't exactly look good.

S

One thing I don't believe was mentioned as an advantage for braking performance is the mechanical advantage of making the clamping point on the rotor (in relation to the center of the hub) is further away. With all things equal, it will take less clamping force to stop the rotor as the caliper moves away from the center of the rotor. HTH

[tazandjan]

Chris- Moving them away from the center also gives more rotor surface area (area varies with the square of the rotor radii) for braking and spreads the heat load. The further away the caliper is, the larger the pad area can be, as well, within space constraints.

The earlier point on rotor and mount stiffness is also very important for consistency of brake feel and performance.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[johan6504]

Not sure if you know this but StopTech has a White Paper Section that is really good. I suggest you read this if you are interested in braking and brakes...

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/te...e_papers.shtml

[tazandjan]

There are all kinds of good competitors to Brembo now. StopTech and Mov'It come to mind. My car is being fitted with Mov'It ceramics very soon.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[vvassallo]

Originally Posted by Scotty

First of all--on topic--the brakes look unbelievable awesome. My posts on BBKs come from my experiences as an HPDE instructor. There are certainly reasons to put on a BBK (you have a very heavy car/poor factory brakes, you want every last tenth of a second in lap times, you drive on a very high speed track, you have bigger wheels and your factory brakes look horribly tiny, you like the way they look in general, you have the money, etc.).

My beef is with those who say BBK significantly improve braking performance on the street--they, in general, don't. Further, for many cars at many tracks, a good brake bleed, proper high temp fluid, possibly stainless steel brake lines, instruction in proper braking technique, track specific pads, AND appropriate slow lap or paddock driving cool downs and stock brake calipers will often perform well, especially if tracking is a several time/year event.

Here here!

[Chris_B]

Originally Posted by Scotty

My beef is with those who say BBK significantly improve braking performance on the street--they, in general, don't. Further, for many cars at many tracks, a good brake bleed, proper high temp fluid, possibly stainless steel brake lines, instruction in proper braking technique, track specific pads, AND appropriate slow lap or paddock driving cool downs and stock brake calipers will often perform well, especially if tracking is a several time/year event.

Yes, there is a lot of bloated information floating around about the effects of upgrading to a BBK, especially from the upstart copycat manufacturers. One thing, however, that is often left out of the discussion is brake feel. Once you have driven a car with proper fixed, opposed piston calipers, you will never again enjoy the feel of floating calipers. The confidence and feedback that a well-sorted out and stiff brake system gives the driver is, to me, worth the price of admission.

Chris

[Scotty]

Originally Posted by Chris_B

Yes, there is a lot of bloated information floating around about the effects of upgrading to a BBK, especially from the upstart copycat manufacturers. One thing, however, that is often left out of the discussion is brake feel. Once you have driven a car with proper fixed, opposed piston calipers, you will never again enjoy the feel of floating calipers. The confidence and feedback that a well-sorted out and stiff brake system gives the driver is, to me, worth the price of admission.

Chris

Welcome, Chris, and what a great first post. Feel is a nebulous thing, but a great braking system is indeed a pleasure to use. I think that is totally a reason to install a BBK. I installed a smaller diameter steering wheel in my M3 with a slightly thicker rim--I don't think that I can "steer" the car any better with it, but it enhances my driving enjoyment every time. Ditto with Cobalt Friction race pads in my Lotus--I like the "bite" on the street, even though I know I am paying for it with increased rotor wear.

[PinoyP]

Wow nice upgrade!

[F355Bob]

Got the front and rear brakes on and bleed. My street and drive are still torn up and won't be paved for another week. I will report on the brakes and video of Goth's exhaust as soon as I can drive the car again.

[F355Bob]

Forgot. Here is the 332 rears. Fronts are 355

[gothspeed]

They look awesome !!!!

My 993TT had much bigger brakes than my 355 with similar tire sizes and I could say they worked substantially better, especially at the end of an off ramp.

As long as the components/bias are balanced they will absolutely work better than smaller factory brakes.

Bigger brakes = more surface area contact = more brake capacity ...... the same way bigger tires = more surface area contact = more grip capacity.

Of course material compounds and all other specifications pay a part as well.

[Mitch Alsup]

Bigger brakes = more surface area contact = more brake capacity ...... [/QUOTE]

Bigger brakes are simply giving the opportunity to stop no faster lots more times.

[fatbillybob]

Originally Posted by Mitch Alsup

Bigger brakes = more surface area contact = more brake capacity ......

Bigger brakes are simply giving the opportunity to stop no faster lots more times.[/QUOTE]

you make a common quote. What about the idea that crappy brakes that can get to threshold abs in "x" seconds and a big brake can get to threshold due to the torque applied in "x-y" seconds? So if I am going 100mph that is 147 ft/sec. If I can brake 0.1 seconds later than my competator that is 14.7ft or about 1 car length. I think there is more than a heat sink advantage here. Does anyone believe me?

[gothspeed]

Originally Posted by Mitch Alsup

Bigger brakes are simply giving the opportunity to stop no faster lots more times.

Assuming there is no possibility a smaller brake rotor, cannot heat up enough in ONE brake cycle to compromise effectiveness.

[Mitch Alsup]

Originally Posted by fatbillybob

you make a common quote. What about the idea that crappy brakes that can get to threshold abs in "x" seconds and a big brake can get to threshold due to the torque applied in "x-y" seconds? So if I am going 100mph that is 147 ft/sec. If I can brake 0.1 seconds later than my competator that is 14.7ft or about 1 car length. I think there is more than a heat sink advantage here. Does anyone believe me?

Your argument is not about the radius of the rotor or of the applied load on the rotor, but of the stiffness of the caliper in applying that load.

[bcwawright]

Big brakes are only for the fastest 355 in the world...which is mine if I can just get it back together...lol

Still can't figure out which of these bumpers goes on the front.......also what's all these radiators for??.....isn't this thing supposed to be air-cooled?